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[Lazarus] (no subject)

Peter Williams
Hi Vincent & Ann,

I have finished as much work as I can on the Form2Html project for Lazarus. Could Vincent please contact me and I will send you a copy of the zipped code for Lazarus (171 KB).

This code is to be included into the Lazarus component repositories.

>Ann

>F2H has now been released under Creative Commons Share-Alike license, the very brief and very clear terms of which are here:

Best Regards,
Peter E Williams


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Re: [Lazarus] (no subject)

Vincent Snijders
2011/2/25 Peter Williams <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Vincent & Ann,
> I have finished as much work as I can on the Form2Html project for Lazarus.
> Could Vincent please contact me and I will send you a copy of the zipped
> code for Lazarus (171 KB).
> This code is to be included into the Lazarus component repositories.

Create a wiki page for your component as explained here:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Code_Conversion_Guide#Creating_a_Code_Release_Page

Then you can send me (a link to) a source zip.

Vincent

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Peter Williams
Hi Vincent,

> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 21:23:37 +0100
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Lazarus] (no subject)
>
> 2011/2/25 Peter Williams <[hidden email]>:
> > Hi Vincent & Ann,
> > I have finished as much work as I can on the Form2Html project for Lazarus.
> > Could Vincent please contact me and I will send you a copy of the zipped
> > code for Lazarus (171 KB).
> > This code is to be included into the Lazarus component repositories.
>
> Create a wiki page for your component as explained here:
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Code_Conversion_Guide#Creating_a_Code_Release_Page
>
> Then you can send me (a link to) a source zip.

I have created an new entry for it here:


Actually that is a typo in the title: it should read "Delphi Form to HTML converter" ... can you please edit this?, thanks.

Where is the best location for me to upload the zip file of the source code to? Please tell me the URL.

>
> Vincent
>

Pew :-)

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Schnell
Looks nice,

On the long run can/should/will this be enhanced to be a
HTML-Widget-Type, that allows for creating a browser GUI for Lazarus
applications ?

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

michael.vancanneyt


On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Michael Schnell wrote:

> Looks nice,
>
> On the long run can/should/will this be enhanced to be a
> HTML-Widget-Type, that allows for creating a browser GUI for Lazarus
> applications ?

No.

It follows a wrong approach. It's nice for a quick&dirty conversion,
but not suitable for a long-term design solution.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Schnell
I see :(

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
In reply to this post by michael.vancanneyt
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It follows a wrong approach. It's nice for a quick&dirty conversion,
> but not suitable for a long-term design solution.

I think a IntraWeb equivalent for Lazarus would be very useful for
many projects where cheap and fast development is more important then
the performance of the final result. Not every website receives
millions of hits per day.

Having said that, I personally don't have time to invest in a intraweb
widgetset for Lazarus, but patches are welcome.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Van Canneyt


On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It follows a wrong approach. It's nice for a quick&dirty conversion,
>> but not suitable for a long-term design solution.
>
> I think a IntraWeb equivalent for Lazarus would be very useful for
> many projects where cheap and fast development is more important then
> the performance of the final result. Not every website receives
> millions of hits per day.

The main point is not in performance (although I think that is also a point
to consider).

The point is that with this approach, a GUI is still needed on the server to
create the GUI forms (which are then transformed to HTML). It is the same
problem as Lazreport. Lazreport needs a GUI, when a reporting engine does
not need a GUI at all. It just needs a canvas. The report designer needs a
GUI, but not the report itself. But lazreport needs a GUI in it's deepest
core, and therefore is not suitable in webenvironments.

I am working on alternatives for this - I am even in discussion with someone
to start a group to work on my design - but such things take time if you
want to do it right. And I want to do it right - not these quick&dirty hacks.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Michael Van Canneyt
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The point is that with this approach, a GUI is still needed on the server to
> create the GUI forms (which are then transformed to HTML).

I think you are not picturing the same architecture as I. In my idea
there would be a new widgetset in Lazarus, called for example "web"
and it would implement converting the LCL object structure to HTML.
There would be no GUI code, because it would be completely separted
from other widgetsets, like gtk.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Van Canneyt


On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Michael Van Canneyt
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The point is that with this approach, a GUI is still needed on the server to
>> create the GUI forms (which are then transformed to HTML).
>
> I think you are not picturing the same architecture as I. In my idea
> there would be a new widgetset in Lazarus, called for example "web"
> and it would implement converting the LCL object structure to HTML.
> There would be no GUI code, because it would be completely separted
> from other widgetsets, like gtk.

Indeed. I misunderstood your idea.

I'm afraid that for your goal, this converter code is not really suitable.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Schnell
In reply to this post by Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On 02/28/2011 11:09 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> In my idea
> there would be a new widgetset in Lazarus, called for example "web"
> and it would implement converting the LCL object structure to HTML.
> There would be no GUI code, because it would be completely separted
> from other widgetsets, like gtk.
>  
While IMHO this would be very good to have, this seems like a huge work
to do.

1) Creating and dynamically modifying the  GUI in the browser:

The Widget type design is: at designtime  streaming the visual
"published" properties of the Forms and their objects into a resource
and on runtime create them when appropriate. As the design is done using
a standard GUI, the "standard" properties will be stored. At runtime,
the "remote browser GUI widget Type" component would need to create in
the browser a look and work alike as the originally designed GUI. IMOH
this only is possible using Java script (such as EXTJS).

To do this, I feel that appropriate identifiers (type-, instance- , and
property- numbers) would need to be assigned to all objects, to allow
for a decently formalized communication between the pascal and the JS code.

Of course modifying visual properties after creation of an object would
work in the same way.


2) GUI-events:

I don't think that using the standard HTML components' "events" would be
useful. Some java script code would need to notify the pascal code of
the user's input.



3) Non-GUI events:

Of course timers, inter-process events (e.g. TThread.Synchronize) etc
would need to be working. As those traditionally are implemented in the
GUI-handling code, here a GUI-free implementation needs to be done from
scratch.


4) Asynchronous Events toward the GUI.

Of course e.g. Timer- and other main-thread-events need to be able to
modify the GUI in the browser. I suppose this is the hardest part, as
HTTP does not allow for this direction of communication. So some kind of
"advanced polling" needs to be implemented (e.g. based on "Comet"
technology, that I was informed to have some caveats).

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Marcos Douglas
In reply to this post by Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Michael Van Canneyt
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The point is that with this approach, a GUI is still needed on the server to
>> create the GUI forms (which are then transformed to HTML).
>
> I think you are not picturing the same architecture as I. In my idea
> there would be a new widgetset in Lazarus, called for example "web"
> and it would implement converting the LCL object structure to HTML.
> There would be no GUI code, because it would be completely separted
> from other widgetsets, like gtk.

Like ExtPascal, but with a GUI editor...


Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Hans-Peter Diettrich
In reply to this post by Michael Van Canneyt
Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:

> same problem as Lazreport. Lazreport needs a GUI, when a reporting
> engine does not need a GUI at all. It just needs a canvas.

A useful extension of the noGUI widgetset?

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

michael.vancanneyt


On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

> Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:
>
>> same problem as Lazreport. Lazreport needs a GUI, when a reporting engine
>> does not need a GUI at all. It just needs a canvas.
>
> A useful extension of the noGUI widgetset?

No. It's a design flaw. Understandable, but a flaw nevertheless.

Have a look at Jasper reports or so. These things are built completely
without reference to a GUI. Or even the RDF from Microsoft (of all
companies).

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Hans-Peter Diettrich
[hidden email] schrieb:

>>> same problem as Lazreport. Lazreport needs a GUI, when a reporting
>>> engine does not need a GUI at all. It just needs a canvas.
>>
>> A useful extension of the noGUI widgetset?
>
> No. It's a design flaw.

What's a design flaw? When an application needs a canvas?

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

michael.vancanneyt


On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

> [hidden email] schrieb:
>
>>>> same problem as Lazreport. Lazreport needs a GUI, when a reporting engine
>>>> does not need a GUI at all. It just needs a canvas.
>>>
>>> A useful extension of the noGUI widgetset?
>>
>> No. It's a design flaw.
>
> What's a design flaw? When an application needs a canvas?

No. When it is designed around a complete GUI if all it needs is a canvas.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
In reply to this post by Hans-Peter Diettrich
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> What's a design flaw? When an application needs a canvas?

Michael means that the reporting engine could output to
TFPCustomCanvas which is part of the FCL

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Van Canneyt


On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What's a design flaw? When an application needs a canvas?
>
> Michael means that the reporting engine could output to
> TFPCustomCanvas which is part of the FCL

That is one option, yes.

It could also output XML with the complete description of the final page layout:

<page number=1 height=29.4 width=21.1>
   <text top=2 left=2 width=10 height=0.8 text="Title of the report" font="Arial;Height=10">
   // ... etc.
</page>

The XML can then be transferred to any canvas you care to implement:
previewer (GUI) , PDF, image, printer...

This is the heart of the reporting engine I already partially implemented.
(The XML is just a representation of the in-memory structure of the report)

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Andrey Veliks
In reply to this post by Marcos Douglas
more like this one www.morfik.com (as idea)

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
[hidden email] wrote:
Like ExtPascal, but with a GUI editor...


Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] New component - Delphi Form to HTML Converter (F2H) component

Michael Van Canneyt

Something like Morfik is what I want to get to :)

Michael.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, Andrey Veliks wrote:

> more like this one www.morfik.com (as idea)
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
>
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Like ExtPascal, but with a GUI editor...
>
>
> Marcos Douglas
>
> --
>
>
>
>

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