[Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

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[Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

wkitty42

ok, so i decided to break things today and see what problems i would run into...
the following is my steps and what i ran into...

  1. go to http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/
  2. now find something that points to how to install...
     a. hummm... nothing on the main page jumps out...
     b. let's try the FAQ link... nothing there jumps out...
     c. let's try the Downloads's link... nothing there...
     d. heck, let's see what the Documentation link might hold...
        1. ahhh... an Installation link... ok!
  3. click on the Installation link and choose the Getting Lazarus link...
  4. OK, now we're finally getting somewhere after 5 to 10 minutes of messing
     around above looking for a link to get started with...
  5. we're on a w2k box so let's do the windows method...
  6. first get and install TortioseSVN, reboot... done...
  7. now wade back into the wiki and try to find where we were before...
     ahhh... here it is... now we wade in again...
  8. read... read... read... ahhh! finally, an installing lazarus link...
  9. read... read... read... ahhh! finally, a section on compiling and
     installing from SVN... ok! this looks like what we're after so here we go...
10. step 1: create the specified directories...
       md c:\freepascal\
       md c:\freepascal\binutils\
       md c:\freepascal\binutils\i386-win32\
       md c:\freepascal\fpc\
       md c:\freepascal\fpc\2.5.1\
       md c:\freepascal\laz\
     ok... 6 directories made...
11. get the bootstrap compiler...
       ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/dist/2.4.2/bootstrap/i386-win32-ppc386.zip
     ok...
12. unzip the bootstrap compiler into \freepascal\binutils created above...
     ok... done...
13. time to SVN the sources down...
     a. Dir: c:\freepascal\binutils\i386-win32\
        URL:
http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/fpcbuild/branches/fixes_2_4/install/binw32
        OK... all done... seems ok... not sure but will try it...
     b. Dir: c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3
        URL: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/fpc/branches/fixes_2_4/
        wait... i don't have a c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3 directory... ok... let's
        create it real quick...
          md c:\freeepascal\fpc\2.4.3
        ok... now run SVN checkout on it... ok... no apparent errors... 30M in
        17 mminutes... revision 16894...
     c. Dir: c:\freepascal\laz
        URL: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk
        ok... no apparent errors... 25.5M in 8 minutes... revision 29421...
14. step 2: create a .BAT file to compile fpc... ok...
15. step 3: execute the makefpc.bat... ok... that seems to have gone ok but i
     did see some warnings and deprecated notes fly by... they're too far back
     for my li'l 5000 line buffer to have retained, though :? i did note that a
     ppc386.exe and a fpcmake.exe were replaced at some point (my machine is
     very tied down and tells me these things) but i'm not sure which ones...
     possibly during the install portion of the execution... moving on to
     lazarus...
16. step 4: create a fpc.cfg file...
     a. i choose to use the fpcmake tool to do this so...
        1. cd \freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\bin\i386-win32
        2. fpcmkcfg -d basepath=C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\bin\i386-win32 -o fpc.cfg
     b. ok... that seems to be ok...
17. step 5: create a .BAT file to compile lazarus... ok...
18. step 6: execute makelaz.bat to make lazarus... utoh! problem... i suspect
     the fpcmkcfg command line in 16a2 to be in error... when i compare the
     posted fpc.cfg in the wiki with the one generated, the paths are different
     in the generated one... they all contain "\bin\i386-win32" which is not in
     the one posted on the wiki...
     a. here's the output and the error i get...

C:\freepascal>makelaz

C:\freepascal>set myversion=2.4.3

C:\freepascal>set mypath=c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3

C:\freepascal>set mybinutils=c:\freepascal\binutils

C:\freepascal>set
PATH=c:\freepascal\binutils\i386-win32;c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\bin\i386-win32;c:\freepascal\binutils\i386-win32;c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\bin\i386-win32;C:\WINNT\system32;C:\WINNT;C:\WINNT\System32\Wbem;C:\Program
Files\ATI Technologies\ATI Control Panel;C:\Program Files\TortoiseSVN\bin;

C:\freepascal>cd c:\freepascal\laz

C:\freepascal\laz>make clean all OPT="-glw2"
make -C ide cleanide
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/ide'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/ide'
make -C lcl/interfaces/nogui clean LCL_PLATFORM=nogui
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl/interfaces/nogui'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
../../units/i386-win32/nogui/interfaces.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl/interfaces/nogui'
make -C lcl clean
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f units/i386-win32/alllclunits.ppu
units/i386-win32/actnlist.ppu units/i386-win32/arrow.ppu
units/i386-win32/avglvltree.ppu units/i386-win32/buttons.ppu
units/i386-win32/calendar.ppu units/i386-win32/chart.ppu
units/i386-win32/checklst.ppu units/i386-win32/clipbrd.ppu
units/i386-win32/clistbox.ppu units/i386-win32/comctrls.ppu
units/i386-win32/controls.ppu units/i386-win32/dbactns.ppu
units/i386-win32/dbctrls.ppu units/i386-win32/dbgrids.ppu
units/i386-win32/dialogs.ppu units/i386-win32/dynamicarray.ppu
units/i386-win32/dynhasharray.ppu units/i386-win32/editbtn.ppu
units/i386-win32/extctrls.ppu units/i386-win32/extdlgs.ppu
units/i386-win32/extendedstrings.ppu units/i386-win32/extgraphics.ppu
units/i386-win32/filectrl.ppu units/i386-win32/forms.ppu
units/i386-win32/fpcadds.ppu units/i386-win32/graphics.ppu
units/i386-win32/graphmath.ppu units/i386-win32/graphtype.ppu
units/i386-win32/grids.ppu units/i386-win32/imglist.ppu
units/i386-win32/inipropstorage.ppu units/i386-win32/interfacebase.ppu
units/i386-win32/lazlinkedlist.ppu units/i386-win32/lclintf.ppu
units/i386-win32/lclmemmanager.ppu units/i386-win32/lclproc.ppu
units/i386-win32/lclrescache.ppu units/i386-win32/lclstrconsts.ppu
units/i386-win32/lcltype.ppu units/i386-win32/lclunicodedata.ppu
units/i386-win32/lconvencoding.ppu units/i386-win32/lmessages.ppu
units/i386-win32/lresources.ppu units/i386-win32/maskedit.ppu
units/i386-win32/menus.ppu units/i386-win32/pairsplitter.ppu
units/i386-win32/popupnotifier.ppu units/i386-win32/postscriptprinter.ppu
units/i386-win32/printers.ppu units/i386-win32/propertystorage.ppu
units/i386-win32/spin.ppu units/i386-win32/stdactns.ppu
units/i386-win32/stdctrls.ppu units/i386-win32/stringhashlist.ppu
units/i386-win32/textstrings.ppu units/i386-win32/toolwin.ppu
units/i386-win32/utrace.ppu units/i386-win32/xmlpropstorage.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f units/i386-win32/lclstrconsts.rst
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make -C interfaces clean
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl/interfaces'
make -C win32 clean
make[3]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl/interfaces/win32'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
../../units/i386-win32/win32/interfaces.ppu
../../units/i386-win32/win32/winext.ppu
../../units/i386-win32/win32/win32def.ppu
../../units/i386-win32/win32/win32proc.ppu ../../units/i386-win32/win32/win32int.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[3]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl/interfaces/win32'
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl/interfaces'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/lcl'
make -C components clean
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make -C synedit clean
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components/synedit'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f units/i386-win32/allsynedit.pas.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components/synedit'
make -C codetools clean
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components/codetools'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f units/i386-win32/codetools.pas.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components/codetools'
make -C lazcontrols clean
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components/lazcontrols'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f lib/i386-win32/lazcontrols.pas.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components/lazcontrols'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/components'
make -C packager/registration clean
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/packager/registration'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f ../units/i386-win32/fcllaz.pas.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/packager/registration'
make -C ideintf clean
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/ideintf'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f units/i386-win32/ideintf.pas.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32 Package.fpc
ppas.bat script.res link.res
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/ideintf'
make -C packager/registration all
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/freepascal/laz/packager/registration'
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/rm.exe -f ../units/i386-win32/fcllaz.ppu
c:/freepascal/binutils/i386-win32/gmkdir.exe -p ../units/i386-win32
c:/freepascal/fpc/2.4.3/bin/i386-win32/ppc386.exe -MObjFPC -Scghi -O1 -gl -vewnh
i -l -Fu. -FE. -FU../units/i386-win32 -glw2 -di386 fcllaz.pas
Hint: Start of reading config file c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\bin\i386-win32\fpc.cfg
Hint: End of reading config file c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\bin\i386-win32\fpc.cfg
Free Pascal Compiler version 2.4.3 [2011/02/08] for i386
Copyright (c) 1993-2010 by Florian Klaempfl
Target OS: Win32 for i386
Compiling fcllaz.pas
Fatal: Can't find unit system used by fcllaz
Fatal: Compilation aborted
make[1]: *** [fcllaz.ppu] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/freepascal/laz/packager/registration'
make: *** [packager/registration] Error 2

C:\freepascal\laz>

i've done this a couple of times and get the same error... however, fixing the
paths in the fpc.cfg to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion put there by the
above fpcmake command in 16a2 seems to fix this problem...

is the fpcmkcfg command in 16a2 incorrect? should the basepath simply be
"C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3" or will this cause other problems??

correcting the 13 instances to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion allow
makelaz.bat to execute and there appears to be a valid executable at the end...
i'm even able to create, compile and execute the two button "your first lazarus
program" tutorial (when i can locate it in the wiki) so i assume that i have a
valid fpc and lazarus environment...

am i missing anything? what about cross-compiling capabilities? i should be able
to add OS/2 and DOS to this setup pretty easily, right? i know i need libraries
and such for them to get started with... are there step by step instructions
that will meld with this layout??

thanks for reading... i hope this one wasn't off topic or otherwise undesired as
so many of my past posts seemingly have been...


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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Marcos Douglas
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:50 PM, waldo kitty <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 10. step 1: create the specified directories...
>      md c:\freepascal\
>      md c:\freepascal\binutils\
>      md c:\freepascal\binutils\i386-win32\
>      md c:\freepascal\fpc\
>      md c:\freepascal\fpc\2.5.1\
>      md c:\freepascal\laz\
>    ok... 6 directories made...
There is an one error:
Change this c:\freepascal\fpc\2.5.1\  to c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\

I changed on the wiki.

>    b. Dir: c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3
>       URL: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/fpc/branches/fixes_2_4/
>       wait... i don't have a c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3 directory... ok...
> let's
>       create it real quick...
>         md c:\freeepascal\fpc\2.4.3

Oh, you saw...  =)

> 18. step 6: execute makelaz.bat to make lazarus... utoh! problem... i
> suspect
>    the fpcmkcfg command line in 16a2 to be in error... when i compare the
>    posted fpc.cfg in the wiki with the one generated, the paths are
> different
>    in the generated one... they all contain "\bin\i386-win32" which is not
> in
>    the one posted on the wiki...
>    a. here's the output and the error i get...

Copy fpc.cfg script on the page... it works.

> i've done this a couple of times and get the same error... however, fixing
> the paths in the fpc.cfg to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion put there
> by the above fpcmake command in 16a2 seems to fix this problem...
>
> is the fpcmkcfg command in 16a2 incorrect? should the basepath simply be
> "C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3" or will this cause other problems??

I use the script on the page... the fpcmkcfg was included later (by
someone), but I not tested.

> correcting the 13 instances to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion allow
> makelaz.bat to execute and there appears to be a valid executable at the
> end... i'm even able to create, compile and execute the two button "your
> first lazarus program" tutorial (when i can locate it in the wiki) so i
> assume that i have a valid fpc and lazarus environment...
>
> am i missing anything? what about cross-compiling capabilities? i should be
> able to add OS/2 and DOS to this setup pretty easily, right? i know i need
> libraries and such for them to get started with... are there step by step
> instructions that will meld with this layout??
>
> thanks for reading... i hope this one wasn't off topic or otherwise
> undesired as so many of my past posts seemingly have been...

Please, try again. I saw the wiki instructions. I think just the path
(\2.5.1 to \2.4.3) was wrong (before, at the first time, I used the
2.5.1 compiler. After I changed to 2.4.3 and I forgot to change the
wiki... sorry).


Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

wkitty42
On 2/8/2011 18:35, Marcos Douglas wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:50 PM, waldo kitty<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> 10. step 1: create the specified directories...
>>       md c:\freepascal\
>>       md c:\freepascal\binutils\
>>       md c:\freepascal\binutils\i386-win32\
>>       md c:\freepascal\fpc\
>>       md c:\freepascal\fpc\2.5.1\
>>       md c:\freepascal\laz\
>>     ok... 6 directories made...
> There is an one error:
> Change this c:\freepascal\fpc\2.5.1\  to c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3\
>
> I changed on the wiki.

yes, i saw the note on another list about some changes...

>>     b. Dir: c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3
>>        URL: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/fpc/branches/fixes_2_4/
>>        wait... i don't have a c:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3 directory... ok...
>> let's
>>        create it real quick...
>>          md c:\freeepascal\fpc\2.4.3
>
> Oh, you saw...  =)

well, kinda had to since the instructions for the SVN update pointed to a
different directory ;)

>> 18. step 6: execute makelaz.bat to make lazarus... utoh! problem... i
>> suspect
>>     the fpcmkcfg command line in 16a2 to be in error... when i compare the
>>     posted fpc.cfg in the wiki with the one generated, the paths are
>> different
>>     in the generated one... they all contain "\bin\i386-win32" which is not
>> in
>>     the one posted on the wiki...
>>     a. here's the output and the error i get...
>
> Copy fpc.cfg script on the page... it works.

i've done that and yes, it does work... however, the (buried) question is if the
commandline's basepath= is incorrect...

>> i've done this a couple of times and get the same error... however, fixing
>> the paths in the fpc.cfg to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion put there
>> by the above fpcmake command in 16a2 seems to fix this problem...
>>
>> is the fpcmkcfg command in 16a2 incorrect? should the basepath simply be
>> "C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3" or will this cause other problems??
>
> I use the script on the page... the fpcmkcfg was included later (by
> someone), but I not tested.

ahhh... can you say if, as asked above, the basepath= portion is what is in error??

FYI: i'm looking to expand on the given instructions to include what is
necessary to add cross compilation from OS whatever to OS something else... i
hope that there's only a few minor changes needed... FPC is already placed into
its own directory with an i386-win32 path... what would be needed to add
i386-GO2V2 and i386-OS2 to the instructions? those are examples but are my
target platforms so they serve as live examples :P

i note that the lazarus does not seem to take into account the target OS and so
simply takes the whole freepascal/laz directory to hand... what is needed to
configure it for i386-win32, i386-GO2V2 and i386-OS2??

>> correcting the 13 instances to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion allow
>> makelaz.bat to execute and there appears to be a valid executable at the
>> end... i'm even able to create, compile and execute the two button "your
>> first lazarus program" tutorial (when i can locate it in the wiki) so i
>> assume that i have a valid fpc and lazarus environment...
>>
>> am i missing anything? what about cross-compiling capabilities? i should be
>> able to add OS/2 and DOS to this setup pretty easily, right? i know i need
>> libraries and such for them to get started with... are there step by step
>> instructions that will meld with this layout??
>>
>> thanks for reading... i hope this one wasn't off topic or otherwise
>> undesired as so many of my past posts seemingly have been...
>
> Please, try again. I saw the wiki instructions. I think just the path
> (\2.5.1 to \2.4.3) was wrong (before, at the first time, I used the
> 2.5.1 compiler. After I changed to 2.4.3 and I forgot to change the
> wiki... sorry).

not a problem... as noted, i got thru it other than the fpcmkcfg commandline
problem which i questioned originally... plus having the answers to
adding/moving the example method to support crosscompiling with little
modification other than holefully unzipping compiler X and libs Y would be a
huge godsend ;)

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Graeme Geldenhuys
In reply to this post by wkitty42
Op 2011-02-08 17:50, waldo kitty het geskryf:
>
> thanks for reading... i hope this one wasn't off topic or otherwise


Awesome work! :-) But that just shows how complex a svn install of
Lazarus is... So lets hope a newbie never goes that path, but instead
uses some daily snapshot archive or a last stable released setup.

I know you went through a lot of trouble, but wouldn't it now be "cool",
to take all those steps, and put it in a single svn_install.bat file,
and maybe post in on a new wiki pages or something? That way, all your
troubles of sifting through the wiki (and yeah, I can't find anything in
the wiki either - just like the bug tracker) would not have been in vein.

I would probably opt out of the TortioseSVN, and rather use the standard
svn.exe command line client. Plus, why a reboot after installing
TortioseSVN? I don't need to reboot when installing svn.exe CLI client.
I guess I forgot what a pain it is to use Windows, and how Microsoft
loves people stare at the screen while Windows reboots again, and again,
and again, and again...... Linux spoils me to much - I reboot once every
6 months.



Regards,
  - Graeme -

--
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/


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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Sven Barth
Am 09.02.2011 07:32, schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
> I would probably opt out of the TortioseSVN, and rather use the standard
> svn.exe command line client. Plus, why a reboot after installing
> TortioseSVN? I don't need to reboot when installing svn.exe CLI client.
> I guess I forgot what a pain it is to use Windows, and how Microsoft
> loves people stare at the screen while Windows reboots again, and again,
> and again, and again...... Linux spoils me to much - I reboot once every
> 6 months.

At least on XP and newer TortoiseSVN does not need a reboot...

Also on Windows using TortoiseSVN is in my opinion much more productive
than using the command line client (says someone who likes to use the
console on Linux...)

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Mark Morgan Lloyd
In reply to this post by wkitty42
waldo kitty wrote:
> ok, so i decided to break things today and see what problems i would run
> into... the following is my steps and what i ran into...
[...]
> thanks for reading... i hope this one wasn't off topic or otherwise
> undesired as so many of my past posts seemingly have been...

My own feeling is that this suggests that you're trying to run before
walking. As another user with limited experience, I generally make a
point of starting off with a binary installation of the most recent
stable FPC (currentlu 2.4.2) which in most cases creates fpc.cfg etc.
without problems, usually then checking that it can compile itself so
that I know that I've also got a good set of sources which I copy to
/usr/lib/fpc/xxx/fpcsrc.

I then use svn to install a set of fairly-recent but not bleeding-edge
Lazarus sources, e.g. fixes_0_9_30 which should build (i.e.  make all
or  make bigide) without error. When starting, I tell the IDE that the
sources are in /usr/lib/fpc/xxx/fpcsrc, and then if there are multiple
versions involved I use --PCP= so that each copy of Lazarus knows where
to find the matching copy of FPC. Note that the Lazarus IDE tries to use
the version of FPC it finds in the path, it doesn't record the version
it's compiled with internally (which I think is unfortunate).

As somebody who is still finding his feet in the twin projects, there
are possibly only one or two occasions where I have had to run a
development version of the compiler, and that has normally only been
when one of the developers has specifically told me to because of a
recent fix.

HOWEVER, what I think this illustrates is that somebody who's got a bit
of experience with Linux is in a far stronger position when it comes to
using other OSes including Windows.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Lukasz Sokol
In reply to this post by Sven Barth
On 09/02/2011 08:33, Sven Barth wrote:

> At least on XP and newer TortoiseSVN does not need a reboot...

AFAIR they (TSVN) recommend it themselves (at least when I was installing TSVN 1.6.5 build 16974)
in their installation program;

And no, I did not, because I stumbled  upon some instructions that said you may achieve the
same if you kill explorer.exe and restart it;

But I imagine that may not be possible for someone who does not have administrative rights.

>
> Also on Windows using TortoiseSVN is in my opinion much more productive than using the command line client (says someone who likes to use the console on Linux...)
>
+1.

> Regards,
> Sven
>




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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Sven Barth
Am 09.02.2011 10:18, schrieb Lukasz Sokol:

> On 09/02/2011 08:33, Sven Barth wrote:
>
>> At least on XP and newer TortoiseSVN does not need a reboot...
>
> AFAIR they (TSVN) recommend it themselves (at least when I was installing TSVN 1.6.5 build 16974)
> in their installation program;
>
> And no, I did not, because I stumbled  upon some instructions that said you may achieve the
> same if you kill explorer.exe and restart it;
>
> But I imagine that may not be possible for someone who does not have administrative rights.

Do you mean restarting the machine or killing explorer.exe? Regarding
reboot I don't know whether rebooting can be prohibited (I believe it
can, but I'm not sure), but explorer.exe can be killed for sure, as
every user has his own instance of explorer.exe running and every user
can kill his own processes (including said explorer.exe).

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Florian Klämpfl
In reply to this post by Lukasz Sokol
Am 09.02.2011 10:18, schrieb Lukasz Sokol:
> On 09/02/2011 08:33, Sven Barth wrote:
>
>> At least on XP and newer TortoiseSVN does not need a reboot...
>
> AFAIR they (TSVN) recommend it themselves (at least when I was installing TSVN 1.6.5 build 16974)
> in their installation program;

The point is simply that dlls might be updated so rebooting is recommend
so all programs get the latest dlls.

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Lukasz Sokol
In reply to this post by Sven Barth
On 09/02/2011 09:36, Sven Barth wrote:
> Am 09.02.2011 10:18, schrieb Lukasz Sokol:
>> But I imagine that may not be possible for someone who does not have administrative rights.
>
> Do you mean restarting the machine or killing explorer.exe? Regarding reboot I don't know whether rebooting can be prohibited (I believe it can, but I'm not sure), but explorer.exe can be killed for sure, as every user has his own instance of explorer.exe running and every user can kill his own processes (including said explorer.exe).
>

Well I don't know I'm no Windows Wizard ;)

But if there is an option like that, i imagine it could be as well used.

L.


> Regards,
> Sven



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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Marcos Douglas
In reply to this post by wkitty42
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:13 PM, waldo kitty <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I changed on the wiki.
>
> yes, i saw the note on another list about some changes...

Good.

>> Copy fpc.cfg script on the page... it works.
>
> i've done that and yes, it does work... however, the (buried) question is if
> the commandline's basepath= is incorrect...

See next answer...

>>> i've done this a couple of times and get the same error... however,
>>> fixing
>>> the paths in the fpc.cfg to remove the "\bin\i386-win32" portion put
>>> there
>>> by the above fpcmake command in 16a2 seems to fix this problem...
>>>
>>> is the fpcmkcfg command in 16a2 incorrect? should the basepath simply be
>>> "C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.3" or will this cause other problems??
>>
>> I use the script on the page... the fpcmkcfg was included later (by
>> someone), but I not tested.
>
> ahhh... can you say if, as asked above, the basepath= portion is what is in
> error??

I don't know because I never use the fpcmkcfg tool!

> FYI: i'm looking to expand on the given instructions to include what is
> necessary to add cross compilation from OS whatever to OS something else...
> i hope that there's only a few minor changes needed... FPC is already placed
> into its own directory with an i386-win32 path... what would be needed to
> add i386-GO2V2 and i386-OS2 to the instructions? those are examples but are
> my target platforms so they serve as live examples :P

This places are to Win32 compilation. If you change the target, you
must be create another directories to the results.

>> Please, try again. I saw the wiki instructions. I think just the path
>> (\2.5.1 to \2.4.3) was wrong (before, at the first time, I used the
>> 2.5.1 compiler. After I changed to 2.4.3 and I forgot to change the
>> wiki... sorry).
>
> not a problem... as noted, i got thru it other than the fpcmkcfg commandline
> problem which i questioned originally... plus having the answers to
> adding/moving the example method to support crosscompiling with little
> modification other than holefully unzipping compiler X and libs Y would be a
> huge godsend ;)

I never used crosscompiling. I can't help you on this case, sorry.


Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Juha Manninen
In reply to this post by wkitty42

waldo kitty kirjoitti tiistai 08 helmikuu 2011 17:50:43:

> ok, so i decided to break things today and see what problems i would run

> into... the following is my steps and what i ran into...

>

> 1. go to http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/

> 2. now find something that points to how to install...

> a. hummm... nothing on the main page jumps out...

> b. let's try the FAQ link... nothing there jumps out...

> c. let's try the Downloads's link... nothing there...

> d. heck, let's see what the Documentation link might hold...

> 1. ahhh... an Installation link... ok!

> 3. click on the Installation link and choose the Getting Lazarus link...

> 4. OK, now we're finally getting somewhere after 5 to 10 minutes of

> messing around above looking for a link to get started with...

> 5. we're on a w2k box so let's do the windows method...

> 6. first get and install TortioseSVN, reboot... done...

> 7. now wade back into the wiki and try to find where we were before...

> ahhh... here it is... now we wade in again...

> 8. read... read... read... ahhh! finally, an installing lazarus link...

> 9. read... read... read... ahhh! finally, a section on compiling and

> installing from SVN... ok! this looks like what we're after so here we

[..]


Me and Marcos Douglas tried to improve the wiki pages Getting_Lazarus and Installing_Lazarus some time ago. Both attempts were half-baked and the result is still a mess. The reason is that the existing (already messy) pages were modified instead of rewriting the page structure completely.

This is a typical problem with wiki pages. Individual pages are written by different people but nobody cares about (or dares to touch) the structure and hierarchy of those pages.

I am not happy with the pages but didn't have enough energy or motivation to improve them either. Maybe some day... (or maybe you or Marcos Douglas want to continue with it).


* What should be done: *


- First, concentrate on the page structure. For example installing Lazarus and installing FPC are 2 different things and they should be documented as such.

A link for installation should be on the main wiki page (as you noted).

The following installation page should have links for different platforms, separately for Lazarus and FPC, and for different install methods.

There will be many pages and some information must be duplicated, but it is still better than one big messy page.


- Easy things should be documented as being easy. For example installing Lazarus trunk from SVN using an existing FPC is EASY. For Linux :


$ cd ~
$ svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk lazarus
$ cd lazarus
$ make all
$ ./lazarus &


For Windows it is about as easy.

However that is not obvious from the current wiki page.


- Concentrate on the essential. For example installing and using TortoiseSVN should NOT be documented at the same page with Lazarus installation (naturally).



... and so on ...


Finally the current pages can be linked as history info about how messy the installation instructions used to be.


Juha



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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Bo Berglund
On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 15:03:23 +0200, Juha Manninen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>* What should be done: *
>
>- First, concentrate on the page structure. For example installing Lazarus and
>installing FPC are 2 different things and they should be documented as such.
>A link for installation should be on the main wiki page (as you noted).
>The following installation page should have links for different platforms,
>separately for Lazarus and FPC, and for different install methods.
>There will be many pages and some information must be duplicated, but it is
>still better than one big messy page.

Yes, this would be a boon if done.

>- Easy things should be documented as being easy. For example installing
>Lazarus trunk from SVN using an existing FPC is EASY. For Linux :
>
>$ cd ~
>$ svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk lazarus
>$ cd lazarus
>$ make all
>$ ./lazarus &

"make all" executed on the command line presupposes that the *correct*
version of make is on path, which is not always the case...
I encountered this and had a hard time understanding what was going
on. Turned out I had a make.exe before the fpc one because I had
installed BDS 2006 on my PC. And this make is totally unsuited for FPC
work...

>For Windows it is about as easy.
>However that is not obvious from the current wiki page.

On Windows (where I am) I found that the best way to compile lazarus
was to make a simple batch file where the path is modified to point to
the correct FPC binary. This way it does not matter how other installs
have messed up the path variable. On my Windows boxes path is horrible
after installing a few scores of programs and utilities. They all seem
to want to add themselves to path even though it typically is not
needed. And they put themselves at the beginning or end with no
systematic reason too. And finally, when uninstalling some utilities
they do not bother removing themselves from path either. :-(

My batch file looks like this:

@echo off
echo This will build lazarus 0_9_30_fixes branch with FPC 2.4.2
echo If this is not OK then use ctrl-c to exit.
pause
set PATH=C:\Programs\lazarus\fpc\2.4.2\bin\i386-win32
make.exe clean all
pause

>
>- Concentrate on the essential. For example installing and using TortoiseSVN
>should NOT be documented at the same page with Lazarus installation
>(naturally).

I believe that someone who has not used SVN but need it in order to
get the sources should really be adviced to install the command line
SVN, because TSVN is really very confusing and invades the Windows
Explorer no end.
I did both so now I have my Explorer messed up, but I have not once
gotten anything to work with TSVN. OTOH installing command line SVN
was easy and after that making the one line command to retrieve the
sources was real simple too. Recommended!
But please put a few links on the wiki page showing where to get the
SVN client! There seems to be a whole lot of such floating around and
it is very confusing for a SVNebie....



--
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden


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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

John-2
On 10/02/2011 9:55 AM, Bo Berglund wrote:

<snip>

> I believe that someone who has not used SVN but need it in order to
> get the sources should really be adviced to install the command line
> SVN, because TSVN is really very confusing and invades the Windows
> Explorer no end.
> I did both so now I have my Explorer messed up, but I have not once
> gotten anything to work with TSVN. OTOH installing command line SVN
> was easy and after that making the one line command to retrieve the
> sources was real simple too. Recommended!
> But please put a few links on the wiki page showing where to get the
> SVN client! There seems to be a whole lot of such floating around and
> it is very confusing for a SVNebie....
>
This is obviously a matter of personal preference, as my experience is
exactly the opposite.  TSVN was my first experience of any version
control system, it installed easily, integrated into - but did not "mess
up" - explorer, and works painlessly.  (I think I had a little bit of
initial confusion setting my proxy server).  Whereas, as Bo mentioned,
even trying to work out where to get the windows command-line client is
a major hurdle.

So the advice to new users (on window$) should be - "make you own
choice, depending on whether you generally prefer command line or gui."

cheers,
John Sunderland

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

wkitty42
In reply to this post by Sven Barth
On 2/9/2011 03:33, Sven Barth wrote:

> Am 09.02.2011 07:32, schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
>> I would probably opt out of the TortioseSVN, and rather use the standard
>> svn.exe command line client. Plus, why a reboot after installing
>> TortioseSVN? I don't need to reboot when installing svn.exe CLI client.
>> I guess I forgot what a pain it is to use Windows, and how Microsoft
>> loves people stare at the screen while Windows reboots again, and again,
>> and again, and again...... Linux spoils me to much - I reboot once every
>> 6 months.
>
> At least on XP and newer TortoiseSVN does not need a reboot...

i had to reboot after installing TortoiseSVN on my vista machine... i suspect it
is to get the (what's it called?) menu incorporation stuff in place and to make
sure the dlls are loaded for that...

> Also on Windows using TortoiseSVN is in my opinion much more productive than
> using the command line client (says someone who likes to use the console on
> Linux...)

one of the things i like, but have not yet used, is the tsvn mime type so as to
be able to use that in certain apps to pull updates... i've not even dug in far
enough to find out if it can also be used to upload changes but in at least two
of the environments i'm working with (w2k and vista) it may be very handy...

of course, i also have linux at hand and am also looking at seeing what i can do
on OS/2 but i have a (very) old OS/2 to work with so many newer features and
capabilities don't even exist for me in that environment...

my biggest and main goal is for cross-platform compiling capability...
especially to be able to develop and compile for the OS/2 environment... so, as
hinted at in my previous post, i want to find out what is needed to be able to
add that to the existing wiki instructions... once this is done, then it should
be easy enough to add instructions for all other cross-platform stuffings...
and, i should add, that there should be minor alterations needed for other base
OS installations to do the same for other platforms as well... the "trick" is to
get it figured out and laid out, first... then documented and posted in an
easily understandable and findable place ;)

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
In reply to this post by Bo Berglund
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Bo Berglund <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "make all" executed on the command line presupposes that the *correct*
> version of make is on path, which is not always the case...
> I encountered this and had a hard time understanding what was going
> on. Turned out I had a make.exe before the fpc one because I had
> installed BDS 2006 on my PC. And this make is totally unsuited for FPC
> work...

In this case it's not really a matter of version, but rather that FPC
expects a GNU Make, while you had installed a Borland Make. Both are
called make, but it isn't really the same thing.

I don't know how much both are compatible because I never use Borland
Make, but obviously not enough.

--
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Hans-Peter Diettrich
In reply to this post by Bo Berglund
Bo Berglund schrieb:

> My batch file looks like this:
>
> @echo off
> echo This will build lazarus 0_9_30_fixes branch with FPC 2.4.2
> echo If this is not OK then use ctrl-c to exit.
> pause
> set PATH=C:\Programs\lazarus\fpc\2.4.2\bin\i386-win32
> make.exe clean all
> pause

This is essentially the same batch that I use :-)

>> - Concentrate on the essential. For example installing and using TortoiseSVN
>> should NOT be documented at the same page with Lazarus installation
>> (naturally).
>
> I believe that someone who has not used SVN but need it in order to
> get the sources should really be adviced to install the command line
> SVN, because TSVN is really very confusing and invades the Windows
> Explorer no end.

We should keep in mind that there are two groups of users, those
prefering a GUI, and those prefereing a console. I for my part am very
happy with TSVN (and GitGUI).

Perhaps we should add instructions for configuring a Lazarus desktop
icon (with --pcp etc.) or an according batch file.


> But please put a few links on the wiki page showing where to get the
> SVN client! There seems to be a whole lot of such floating around and
> it is very confusing for a SVNebie....

ACK - in the hope that the links will not expire soon...

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Juha Manninen
In reply to this post by Bo Berglund
Bo Berglund kirjoitti torstai 10 helmikuu 2011 00:55:53:

> >- Easy things should be documented as being easy. For example installing
> >Lazarus trunk from SVN using an existing FPC is EASY. For Linux :
> >
> >$ cd ~
> >$ svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk lazarus
> >$ cd lazarus
> >$ make all
> >$ ./lazarus &
>
> "make all" executed on the command line presupposes that the *correct*
> version of make is on path, which is not always the case...
> I encountered this and had a hard time understanding what was going
> on. Turned out I had a make.exe before the fpc one because I had
> installed BDS 2006 on my PC. And this make is totally unsuited for FPC
> work...

Yes, I have seen this problem. It must be mentioned in the installation page
for Windows. On Linux such problem does not occur.


> >For Windows it is about as easy.
> >However that is not obvious from the current wiki page.
>
> On Windows (where I am) I found that the best way to compile lazarus
> was to make a simple batch file where the path is modified to point to
> the correct FPC binary. This way it does not matter how other installs
> have messed up the path variable.

Installing many versions of FPC is an advanced task.
My idea was to simplify instructions for the basic install. Advanced  stuff can
be documented as being advanced.
Currently the wiki page gives an impression that even the basic installation
is a very complex task.


> On my Windows boxes path is horrible
> after installing a few scores of programs and utilities. They all seem
> to want to add themselves to path even though it typically is not
> needed. And they put themselves at the beginning or end with no
> systematic reason too. And finally, when uninstalling some utilities
> they do not bother removing themselves from path either. :-(
>
> My batch file looks like this:
>
> @echo off
> echo This will build lazarus 0_9_30_fixes branch with FPC 2.4.2
> echo If this is not OK then use ctrl-c to exit.
> pause
> set PATH=C:\Programs\lazarus\fpc\2.4.2\bin\i386-win32
> make.exe clean all
> pause

The page already has many scripts that confuse the newbies more that help
them. Please don't add more scripts to confuse them more.


> >- Concentrate on the essential. For example installing and using
> >TortoiseSVN should NOT be documented at the same page with Lazarus
> >installation (naturally).
>
> I believe that someone who has not used SVN but need it in order to
> get the sources should really be adviced to install the command line
> SVN, because TSVN is really very confusing and invades the Windows
> Explorer no end.

Both of those tools can be MENTIONED but their installation and usage must NOT
be documented on a page explaining Lazarus installation.
If someone doesn't know how to get files from a Subversion server, he can
easily find such information from net, by searchng "Installing Subversion" and
"Using Subversion" etc.
When a person reads a document of Lazarus installation, he expects to get
Lazarus installation and not SVN installation.
The same way a reader of SVN installation document does not expect to get
Lazarus installation.

I separated some of those "deviations" to their own sub-pages but the result
is still half-baked as I noted.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Marcos Douglas
In reply to this post by Juha Manninen
2011/2/9 Juha Manninen <[hidden email]>:
> [..]
>
> Me and Marcos Douglas tried to improve the wiki pages Getting_Lazarus and
> Installing_Lazarus some time ago. Both attempts were half-baked and the
> result is still a mess. The reason is that the existing (already messy)
> pages were modified instead of rewriting the page structure completely.

You right.

> This is a typical problem with wiki pages. Individual pages are written by
> different people but nobody cares about (or dares to touch) the structure
> and hierarchy of those pages.
>
> I am not happy with the pages but didn't have enough energy or motivation to
> improve them either. Maybe some day... (or maybe you or Marcos Douglas want
> to continue with it).

Same of you... and I don't have much time. I also do not write in
English as quickly as I write in Portuguese.


Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] following wiki for new clean install from SVN...

Hans-Peter Diettrich
In reply to this post by Juha Manninen
Juha Manninen schrieb:

> Installing many versions of FPC is an advanced task.
> My idea was to simplify instructions for the basic install. Advanced  stuff can
> be documented as being advanced.

ACK

> Currently the wiki page gives an impression that even the basic installation
> is a very complex task.

Installation from SVN *is* advanced stuff. Unless the user tries to
install an approved release branch, he can run into any number of problems.


>> I believe that someone who has not used SVN but need it in order to
>> get the sources should really be adviced to install the command line
>> SVN, because TSVN is really very confusing and invades the Windows
>> Explorer no end.
>
> Both of those tools can be MENTIONED but their installation and usage must NOT
> be documented on a page explaining Lazarus installation.

ACK. The Lazarus documentation should not detail more than the use of
the URL, with both SVN and TSVN (or KSVN on other platforms).

DoDi


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