[Lazarus] Menu caption standards

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[Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Flávio Etrusco
Hello,

I noticed some changes to menus' captions and I disagree with them.
AFAIK the "standard" for menu captions is to have '...' (ellipsis)  to
indicate the menu doesn't have direct action, so it should be used for
any menu that invokes a dialog, no matter it's modal or not.

Best regards,
Flávio

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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 19/04/2011 01:08, Flávio Etrusco wrote:

> so it should be used for
> any menu that invokes a dialog, no matter it's modal or not.

That's not the case in Mozilla Thunderbird. Only modal dialogs have the
ellipsis in the menu item. Examples:

 *  'Tools > Preferences' does not.
 *  'File > New > Message' does not.
 *  'File > Print' does because it is modal.
 etc...


At least this is the case under Linux.



Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Juha Manninen
Graeme Geldenhuys kirjoitti tiistai, 19. huhtikuuta 2011 09:35:01:

> On 19/04/2011 01:08, Flávio Etrusco wrote:
> > so it should be used for
> > any menu that invokes a dialog, no matter it's modal or not.
>
> That's not the case in Mozilla Thunderbird. Only modal dialogs have the
> ellipsis in the menu item. Examples:
>
>  *  'Tools > Preferences' does not.
>  *  'File > New > Message' does not.
>  *  'File > Print' does because it is modal.
>  etc...

Yes, the conventions are not very strict in this case.

Now the use of 3 dots In Lazarus is more consistent than it used to be.
I can add the dots also to all View-menu items + other places that show
dialogs, if it's the preferred way. What do others say?

User interfaces are difficult to design because there is no single right
solution, it is always a matter of opinion.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Paul Ishenin-2
19.04.2011 15:06, Juha (gmail) wrote:
> User interfaces are difficult to design because there is no single right
> solution, it is always a matter of opinion.

Look at windows (xp/vista) and osx design guidlines.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin


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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Mark Morgan Lloyd
In reply to this post by Flávio Etrusco
Flávio Etrusco wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I noticed some changes to menus' captions and I disagree with them.
> AFAIK the "standard" for menu captions is to have '...' (ellipsis)  to
> indicate the menu doesn't have direct action, so it should be used for
> any menu that invokes a dialog, no matter it's modal or not.

In that case, something like a browser's New -> New Window should be
followed by an ellipsis. Conventionally, it is not, which suggests that
the criterion is whether the action is relevant to the current window in
which case it would usually (but not necessarily) be modal.

As another example, a browser's Edit -> Find in This Page... brings up a
non-modal dialogue associated with the current window.

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Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

José Mejuto
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Hello Lazarus-List,

Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 8:35:01 AM, you wrote:

GG> That's not the case in Mozilla Thunderbird. Only modal dialogs have the
GG> ellipsis in the menu item. Examples:
GG>  *  'Tools > Preferences' does not.
GG>  *  'File > New > Message' does not.
GG>  *  'File > Print' does because it is modal.
GG>  etc...
GG> At least this is the case under Linux.

The "..." is added when the menu entry is an action verb and this
action requires further configuration/data.

Examples:

Open: If the option just only open the file selector no "...", but if
it opens a configuration window to select which open it should have
it.

Print: If it prints directly no dots, but if configuration is opened
then "..."

Select All: If selects all text no "...", but if a dialog is opened to
define what to select the elipsis must be added.

Configure: The verb itself indicates a new dialog, so it will never
present an "..."

Ellipsis indicates that a verb need more configuration to finish its
action. 98% times the opened dialog is a modal dialog.

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 José


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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Flávio Etrusco
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:29 AM, José Mejuto <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Lazarus-List,
>
> Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 8:35:01 AM, you wrote:
>
> GG> That's not the case in Mozilla Thunderbird. Only modal dialogs have the
> GG> ellipsis in the menu item. Examples:
> GG>  *  'Tools > Preferences' does not.
> GG>  *  'File > New > Message' does not.
> GG>  *  'File > Print' does because it is modal.
> GG>  etc...
> GG> At least this is the case under Linux.
>
> The "..." is added when the menu entry is an action verb and this
> action requires further configuration/data.
>
> Examples:
>
> Open: If the option just only open the file selector no "...", but if
> it opens a configuration window to select which open it should have
> it.
>
> Print: If it prints directly no dots, but if configuration is opened
> then "..."
>
> Select All: If selects all text no "...", but if a dialog is opened to
> define what to select the elipsis must be added.
>
> Configure: The verb itself indicates a new dialog, so it will never
> present an "..."
>
> Ellipsis indicates that a verb need more configuration to finish its
> action. 98% times the opened dialog is a modal dialog.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  José
>

Thanks a lot for all answers. Sorry for the noise, I stand corrected :-)

Best regards,
Flávio

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Re: [Lazarus] Menu caption standards

Juha Manninen
Flávio Etrusco kirjoitti tiistai, 19. huhtikuuta 2011 23:42:31:
> Thanks a lot for all answers. Sorry for the noise, I stand corrected :-)

It is not noise, those are valid comments.

It seems the convention varies from program to program. For example the KDE
programs I am looking have File -> Open ... (with dots) although it just opens
the KDE open dialog.
Then they have many items that open a big dialog yet have no dots.

I don't know if the Lazarus menus are "corrent" now but at least they are
consistent (more or less).
If the modeless window menu items need '...' then it must be added to all of
them. I personally like to have them visually different from modal dialogs
because those menu entries don't always open a new window, they can also bring
focus to an existing already opened window.

Juha

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