[Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
18 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Bart
Hi,

This is a bit off-topic.

I have an ancient computer: Intel Celeron 700Mhz, 512MB RAM, 20GB IDE HD.
(http://flyingsheep.nl/computer_nostalgie.htm#celeron700)
(Hardware upgrades are not in the picture.)

Up until now this system runs WindowsME.
It used to be a dualboot system with Suse 10.0, but unfortunately my
second HD (or the controller) died.

On Both OS-es I had Lazarus trunk up and running with fpc 2.6.4, and I
used the WinMe environment to find and fix Win9x specific bugs in
Lazarus.

However, now we (as in: Lazarus) have said goodbye to Win9x, the
machine can get a new life.

I would like to run some kind of Linux on it, which must be rather
light weight given the specs of the machine.
This Linux must be able to:
- run fpc 3.0 series (I install them from script, not using any packet manager)
- run Lazarus trunk
- access an external HD (via USB 1.0) with an NTFS filesystem
- access internet out of the box (the system is connected to my DSL
modem/router via cable, so no WiFi is needed here) and have a browser
(GUI, not just lynx).
- auto detect and configure my LCD monitor (this drove me mad on Suse 10.0)

Thing I would like to have, but they are not essential:
- some viewer for pictures (bmp,png,jpg)
- play mp3
- record sound (the system has a decent soundcard, and I used it to
digitize someof my LP's and cassettes).

I do not mind using a console to get things installed.
However, installing the binutils and devel libraries Lazarus needs,
must be achievable without having to search the net for days and days.

In the past with Suse 10.0 I've gone through dependancy hell to achieve this.

My only other experience with Linux is my Fedora Core 18 VM.
Setting up Lazarus there was a breeze (install compiler, binutils, svn
client. Download sources, buid).
The KDE desktop it uses however is beyond me though.
Somehow I succeeded in creating a Lazarus "shortcut" on the desktop,
but I never understood how this was supposed to work at all (given the
fact that Lazarus is not installed using a packet manager, because it
is trunk).

As for WM's: I'm used to KDE, but that might probably be a bit too
heavy fo this old beast, so I don't mind experimenting with another,
more light weight, one.
That being said, the OS should come with GTK2 (and maybe QT) libraries
in order to have a functional Lazarus.

So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?

Bart

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Sven Barth
On 14.02.2016 15:14, Bart wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a bit off-topic.
>
> I have an ancient computer: Intel Celeron 700Mhz, 512MB RAM, 20GB IDE HD.
> (http://flyingsheep.nl/computer_nostalgie.htm#celeron700)
> (Hardware upgrades are not in the picture.)

[snip]

> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?

I'd suggest ArchLinux. It's a very lightweight distro that's based on a
rolling release (like Gentoo), but uses binary packages instead. I use
it on my two main computers. On one I'm only using Awesome as window
manager and on the other OpenBox. Nothing else.

Regards,
Sven


--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Michael Van Canneyt
In reply to this post by Bart


On Sun, 14 Feb 2016, Bart wrote:

> As for WM's: I'm used to KDE, but that might probably be a bit too
> heavy fo this old beast, so I don't mind experimenting with another,
> more light weight, one.
> That being said, the OS should come with GTK2 (and maybe QT) libraries
> in order to have a functional Lazarus.
>
> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?

Linux Mint Mate ?

I installed linux mint cinammon on a relatively old laptop, and I have been
very satisfied. Mate is said to need even less resources.

Maybe lubuntu needs even less.

Michael.

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Mark Morgan Lloyd
In reply to this post by Sven Barth
Sven Barth wrote:

> On 14.02.2016 15:14, Bart wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a bit off-topic.
>>
>> I have an ancient computer: Intel Celeron 700Mhz, 512MB RAM, 20GB IDE HD.
>> (http://flyingsheep.nl/computer_nostalgie.htm#celeron700)
>> (Hardware upgrades are not in the picture.)
>
> [snip]
>
>> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?
>
> I'd suggest ArchLinux. It's a very lightweight distro that's based on a
> rolling release (like Gentoo), but uses binary packages instead. I use
> it on my two main computers. On one I'm only using Awesome as window
> manager and on the other OpenBox. Nothing else.

Alternatively, I run Debian "Lenny" with KDE on a number of machines of
that sort of spec. For later Debians consider XFCE irrespective of
system spec.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

brian
On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 14:34:45 +0000, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

>
>Alternatively, I run Debian "Lenny" with KDE on a number of machines of
>that sort of spec. For later Debians consider XFCE irrespective of
>system spec.
>
+1 from me on that one. My wife and I both run Debian (Wheezy on hers,
Jessie on mine), and she insisted on trying both KDE and GNOME before
she'd let me install XFCE on hers. The difference in responsiveness on
her older PC now that I've persuaded her to use XFCE is truly
phenomenal.

You can always run some of the programs associated with the other
desktops under XFCE if you need to, e.g. xfburn is quite a limited
program when compared with K3b.

Brian.


--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

leledumbo
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bart
> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?

Anything with a WM instead of DE. I suggest Manjaro as it's Arch rolling release philosophy managed under Debian style package repository versioning, try the Fluxbox, JWM or PekWM flavour from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/manjarolinux/files/community/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Giuliano Colla
In reply to this post by Bart
Il 14/02/2016 15:14, Bart ha scritto:
> As for WM's: I'm used to KDE, but that might probably be a bit too
> heavy fo this old beast, so I don't mind experimenting with another,
> more light weight, one.
> That being said, the OS should come with GTK2 (and maybe QT) libraries
> in order to have a functional Lazarus.

For OS I'd encourage you to CentOs 6. It provides long term support,
with a life span of 10 years.
IMHO CentOs 7 is too young, and has still a lot of things to be ironed
out. It is rpm based, which might be handy if you're used to rpm as
opposed to deb. Other distros change too frequently, and force you to
upgrade the full system instead of just updating what needs updates.

But, whichever OS you decide to pick up, if you're used to KDE, you
might consider TDE as WM.

It's nothing but the old faithful KDE 3.5 (which I've been happily
running in a hardware setup similar to the one you mention) ported to
the more recent distros, by a group of former KDE developers and
maintainers, unhappy with the road taken by KDE 4 (and now KDE 5),
which, with the "Plasma" and "plasmoids" things has become too heavy,
bloated, and buggy beyond hope.

See:
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

Giuliano


--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Mark Morgan Lloyd
Giuliano Colla wrote:

> But, whichever OS you decide to pick up, if you're used to KDE, you
> might consider TDE as WM.
>
> It's nothing but the old faithful KDE 3.5 (which I've been happily
> running in a hardware setup similar to the one you mention) ported to
> the more recent distros, by a group of former KDE developers and
> maintainers, unhappy with the road taken by KDE 4 (and now KDE 5),
> which, with the "Plasma" and "plasmoids" things has become too heavy,
> bloated, and buggy beyond hope.

It's good to see that that's come back to life, it had a worrying hiatus
a couple of years ago.

In any event, watch out for distreaux which mandate systemd and
NetworkManager. I normally disable the latter but a few weeks ago
something happened which made me suspect that recent KDEs don't like
that (full disclosure: I think that was on Debian Jessie on an RPi2, and
in this case I /mean/ Debian not Raspbian).

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Graeme Geldenhuys-3
In reply to this post by Bart
On 2016-02-14 14:14, Bart wrote:
> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?

Choices, choices... Mine would be FreeBSD (or even PC-BSD) with JWM
(Joe's Window Manager - this only requires 8MB to run). I've installed
my FreeBSD when 9.0 came out and kept it up to date with every release,
all the way to 10.1 and it is still running rock solid. Uptimes are
always around 3-4 months, until I do routine [physical] cleaning of the
box (dust etc). You can install any libraries you want with 'pkg install
xxx' or via FreeBSD's ports system. The "pkg" tool will do library
dependency resolution for you - just like Linux's apt-get or yum. For
file management I prefer Midnight Commander (console) and PCManFM (GUI)
- both very light on resources. For image viewing I use Eye of Mate or
Geeqie - the latter is really nice, and again every light on resources.
I run nVidia's drivers which gives excellent performance, but the open
source Intel, AMD and nVidia drivers are okay too. Sound and things like
VLC works perfectly for watching TV episodes, or recording desktop
screen casts etc.

If you want a more bloated "desktop environment" system (thus uses much
more resources with little benefit), then simply install Mate (what used
to be Gnome 2) or KDE.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Giuliano Colla
In reply to this post by Giuliano Colla
Il 14/02/2016 16:34, Giuliano Colla ha scritto:
> That being said, the OS should come with GTK2 (and maybe QT) libraries
> in order to have a functional Lazarus.

Another important thing to consider is 32bit architecture support: many
modern distros only support x86_64, to avoid the hassle of providing a
double for everything. I'm pretty sure that Intel never made a 64 bit
Celeron clocked at 700Mhz.

Giuliano


--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Bart
On 2/14/16, Giuliano Colla <[hidden email]> wrote:


> Another important thing to consider is 32bit architecture support: many
> modern distros only support x86_64, to avoid the hassle of providing a
> double for everything. I'm pretty sure that Intel never made a 64 bit
> Celeron clocked at 700Mhz.

Itanium 1 came in 2001 according to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_microprocessors#64-bit_processors:_IA-64.

In 2005 the first 64-bit Celeron D model saw light.

Bart

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Giuliano Colla
Il 14/02/2016 19:04, Bart ha scritto:
> In 2005 the first 64-bit Celeron D model saw light.

Yes but it was a 2.6Ghz or something.


--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

silvioprog
In reply to this post by leledumbo
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 12:14 PM, leledumbo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?
[...] 
Anything with a WM instead of DE. I suggest Manjaro as it's Arch rolling
release philosophy managed under Debian style package repository versioning,
try the Fluxbox, JWM or PekWM flavour from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/manjarolinux/files/community/

+1.

Bart,

I have two basic machines, both with 1.2 GHz CPU and 2 GB RAM. In the first one, I have installed Xubuntu, that's a very light OS, but after replace it with Manjaro with XFCE [1], I noticed that the machine never crashes, and I don't got more problems with broken dependencies as I had with DEBs.

In the second machine I replaced Linux Mint with Manjaro (with XFCE too), and Manjaro is as light as Mint, however IMHO Majaro's GUIs are more intuitive and clear than Mint.

Some days ago I tested Manjaro with KDE, and I'm suprised with its GUI quality and stability, probable I'll replace the Windows 10 (I need it to use Delphi Seattle here in the company) of my development machine to use Manjaro KDE, moving Windows to a VM.

But I have a personal suggestion: try to test at least three popular Linux distributions, I tried six (*Ubuntu[I hate Unity], Fedora[nice, but...], openSUSE[very nice, but hard for my environment], FreeBSD[very fast for my environment, but...], CentOS[nothing to declare] and ArchLinux[perfect with Manjaro customizations]) in a VM with same reqisities of my two real basic machines, so the VM showed me a similar scennario of the real environment, and this test helped me a lot to choose the ideal distribution for my real machines.

Good luck! :-)

ps. Take a look at this two pictures [2][3], there is Lazarus running on Manjaro KDE. In my case it prefer to install it from a package manager instead of using external third party scripts, and in Manjaro I just did "# pacman -S lazarus-qt" to install FPC 3.0.0 and Lazarus Qt 1.4.4.


--
Silvio Clécio

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

silvioprog
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 4:10 PM, silvioprog <[hidden email]> wrote:

Oops, it seems that img42 is offline now. I meant:


--
Silvio Clécio

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Leonardo M. Ramé
In reply to this post by Mark Morgan Lloyd
El 14/02/16 a las 11:34, Mark Morgan Lloyd escribió:

> Sven Barth wrote:
>> On 14.02.2016 15:14, Bart wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is a bit off-topic.
>>>
>>> I have an ancient computer: Intel Celeron 700Mhz, 512MB RAM, 20GB
>>> IDE HD.
>>> (http://flyingsheep.nl/computer_nostalgie.htm#celeron700)
>>> (Hardware upgrades are not in the picture.)
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> So, do you have tips on which Linux flavour to install on this machine?
>>
>> I'd suggest ArchLinux. It's a very lightweight distro that's based on a
>> rolling release (like Gentoo), but uses binary packages instead. I use
>> it on my two main computers. On one I'm only using Awesome as window
>> manager and on the other OpenBox. Nothing else.
>
> Alternatively, I run Debian "Lenny" with KDE on a number of machines
> of that sort of spec. For later Debians consider XFCE irrespective of
> system spec.
>
+1 I run XUbuntu, that comes with XFCE instead of Unity and runs pretty
well on low end PCs..

Regards,

--
Leonardo M. Ramé
http://leonardorame.blogspot.com

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Bart
In reply to this post by Bart
Hi,

On 2/14/16, Bart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is a bit off-topic.
>
> I have an ancient computer: Intel Celeron 700Mhz, 512MB RAM, 20GB IDE HD.
> (http://flyingsheep.nl/computer_nostalgie.htm#celeron700)
> (Hardware upgrades are not in the picture.)
>

Thanks to all for the give advice.
In the end I have installed Debian 8.3.0 XFCE on my geriatric system.
(I tested some other systems, but their installers just froze.)

It's up and running.
It feels rather slower than Suse 10.0 though.

I managed to install fpc 3.0 (from install script, did not install from .deb)
I managed to build Lazarus from svn.
That took some 30 minutes, and at one time I thought the system had
frozen, but it was just the linker taking ages (and probably being
very memory hungry).
I dealt with the infamous "crti.o not found" message.

As we speak I'm typing this in Iceweasel!

Bye for now.

Bart

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Donald Ziesig
On 02/26/2016 09:26 AM, Bart wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2/14/16, Bart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> This is a bit off-topic.
>>
>> I have an ancient computer: Intel Celeron 700Mhz, 512MB RAM, 20GB IDE HD.
>> (http://flyingsheep.nl/computer_nostalgie.htm#celeron700)
>> (Hardware upgrades are not in the picture.)
>>
> Thanks to all for the give advice.
> In the end I have installed Debian 8.3.0 XFCE on my geriatric system.
> (I tested some other systems, but their installers just froze.)
>
> It's up and running.
> It feels rather slower than Suse 10.0 though.
>
> I managed to install fpc 3.0 (from install script, did not install from .deb)
> I managed to build Lazarus from svn.
> That took some 30 minutes, and at one time I thought the system had
> frozen, but it was just the linker taking ages (and probably being
> very memory hungry).
> I dealt with the infamous "crti.o not found" message.
>
> As we speak I'm typing this in Iceweasel!
>
> Bye for now.
>
> Bart
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Lazarus mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
>
>
Hi Bart,

Congrats on getting the old-timer to work.

Also congrats on getting rid of the crti.o message.  I have been
ignoring those messages for years because they don't seem to do anything
bad, but I sure would like to get rid of them.  How did you do it?

Thanks,

Don Ziesig

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus on my ancient computer?

Bart
On 2/26/16, Donald Ziesig <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Congrats on getting the old-timer to work.

;-)


> Also congrats on getting rid of the crti.o message.  I have been
> ignoring those messages for years because they don't seem to do anything
> bad, but I sure would like to get rid of them.  How did you do it?

Find the crti.o file on your system:
find -name crti.o

It seems to default to /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/

Open /etc/fpc.cfg
Find the line that sets the path for library files, (-Fl)
Add the found path to it (separate with semiconon)

Bart

--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus