[Lazarus] Lazarus Help

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[Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Dians
Could i get lazarus help/Documentation like delphi help ? when i got
an error , i looking for it in help

rgds,

dians

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
On 03/29/2011 05:11 AM, Dians wrote:
> Could i get lazarus help/Documentation like delphi help ? when i got
> an error , i looking for it in help
While I feel that the help system does work well (once you found out to
get the help on components that are not in a uses clause :) ), the help
itself is quite minimal regarding Delphi. Some components are documented
only minimalistic ( like with all community driven project "commercial"
does have a point here ). For beginners Delphi has a point as the
language itself is handled in the help files. So it would be a nice  
thing if it would be possible to integrate the Delphi help in  Lazarus
for users that do have a Delphi license.

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Marco van de Voort
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 08:57:18AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> does have a point here ). For beginners Delphi has a point as the
> language itself is handled in the help files. So it would be a nice  
> thing if it would be possible to integrate the Delphi help in  Lazarus
> for users that do have a Delphi license.

I think that would kill any motivation to work on the help. Moreover, the
FPC ref manual (the language description) is fine, so I don't see a reason
to use the Delphi version of that part.


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
On 03/29/2011 09:37 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> Moreover, the
> FPC ref manual (the language description) is fine, so I don't see a reason
> to use the Delphi version of that part.
"Online" help on syntax errors and on language keywords.

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Marco van de Voort
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 09:41:06AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 09:37 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> > Moreover, the
> > FPC ref manual (the language description) is fine, so I don't see a reason
> > to use the Delphi version of that part.
> "Online" help on syntax errors and on language keywords.

The reference guide is also available online, so that is no reason.

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
On 03/29/2011 09:16 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> The reference guide is also available online, so that is no reason.
Sorry for erroneous language. Here with "online" I meant pressing F1
when a language error occurs or a language keyword is under the cursor.

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Sven Barth
Am 30.03.2011 09:01, schrieb Michael Schnell:
> On 03/29/2011 09:16 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
>> The reference guide is also available online, so that is no reason.
> Sorry for erroneous language. Here with "online" I meant pressing F1
> when a language error occurs or a language keyword is under the cursor.

At least the first one works if the right documentation is installed.
See this mail from Graeme (including screenshot):
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2011-February/060170.html

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Sven Barth
Am 30.03.2011 09:30, schrieb Sven Barth:
> Am 30.03.2011 09:01, schrieb Michael Schnell:
>> On 03/29/2011 09:16 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
>>> The reference guide is also available online, so that is no reason.
>> Sorry for erroneous language. Here with "online" I meant pressing F1
>> when a language error occurs or a language keyword is under the cursor.
>
> At least the first one works if the right documentation is installed.
> See this mail from Graeme (including screenshot):
> http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2011-February/060170.html

If you follow the link in the second mail after Graeme's (leading to the
wiki), you'll see that the second one (language keywords) is also supported.

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
On 03/30/2011 09:34 AM, Sven Barth wrote:
>
> If you follow the link in the second mail after Graeme's (leading to
> the wiki), you'll see that the second one (language keywords) is also
> supported.
>
saying

"This feature exists since 0.9.15 and requires the FPC sources installed
locally."

So "installing  the FPC sources locally" correctly might do the trick.
Even though I always use the most recent FPC and Lazarus and thus I do
have the FPC sources from the svn, I only vary rarely manage to get any
decent help when pressing F1.

I know myself to always be too stupid to use any user-friendly features
of any devices or software :-( .

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Graeme Geldenhuys
In reply to this post by Sven Barth
On 30/03/2011 09:30, Sven Barth wrote:
>
> At least the first one works if the right documentation is installed.
> See this mail from Graeme (including screenshot):
> http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2011-February/060170.html


And the second option works by using fpGUI's DocView and the INF help
files. Integration with Lazarus IDE is dead simple via the External
Tools dialog (no need to recompile the IDE). You can even integrate
Kylix 3's help with Lazarus IDE. Thus giving you context sensitive
OFFLINE help.


Regards,
   - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
On 03/30/2011 09:58 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>
>
> And the second option works by using fpGUI's DocView and the INF help
> files. Integration with Lazarus IDE is dead simple via the External
> Tools dialog (no need to recompile the IDE). You can even integrate
> Kylix 3's help with Lazarus IDE. Thus giving you context sensitive
> OFFLINE help.
>
It would be GREAT if Lazarus would provide all this right out of the box
to allow starters that don't have a Delphi installation running in
parallel up to speed.

I have no idea about the Kylix 3 help files' license and even though I
once had Kylix I forgot where I should find them, but ....

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 30/03/2011 10:14, Michael Schnell wrote:
> It would be GREAT if Lazarus would provide all this right out of the box

I've been saying this for years, but the Lazarus developers can't seem
to make a decision on a offline help format... so we are all stuck (by
default) with the crap online only wiki help.


> I have no idea about the Kylix 3 help files' license and even though I
> once had Kylix I forgot where I should find them, but ....

Kylix Help:
===========
I placed Kylix 3 Open Edition (free version) on the following locations
for download. It's a 91MB download. It includes the help files. The
installation will be a problem on new distros, but you can simply unpack
the .rpm files manually to get to the help files and hyperhelp viewer.

   http://www.4shared.com/file/M7Lzl5kq/kylix3_openeditiontar.html

   http://opensoft.homeip.net:8080/~graemeg/kylix3_openedition.tar.gz


Here are instructions for adding Kylix 3 help to Lazarus IDE.

 
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Installing_Help_in_the_IDE#Installing_the_Kylix_Help_in_the_Lazarus_IDE


fpGUI's Docview:
================
Attached is a screenshot of how to setup DocView with Lazarus IDE, via
the External Tools dialog. INF format help and a slightly old Docview
binary can be downloaded from fpGUI's SourceForge Downloads page. Both
the INF help (with completed FPC Language Reference file) and binary
Docview will be updated soon, with the new fpGUI release.


Regards,
   - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Hans-Peter Diettrich
In reply to this post by Michael Schnell
Michael Schnell schrieb:
> On 03/29/2011 09:16 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
>> The reference guide is also available online, so that is no reason.
> Sorry for erroneous language. Here with "online" I meant pressing F1
> when a language error occurs or a language keyword is under the cursor.

That's "context sensitive" help.

The context (here) is the current focus, on e.g. an error message in the
messages window, the word at the caret position in source code, a menu
entry...

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Hans-Peter Diettrich
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb:
> On 30/03/2011 10:14, Michael Schnell wrote:
>> It would be GREAT if Lazarus would provide all this right out of the box
>
> I've been saying this for years, but the Lazarus developers can't seem
> to make a decision on a offline help format... so we are all stuck (by
> default) with the crap online only wiki help.

FPDoc Editor is fine, and it allows to update the help immediately. Even
no need to press F1, to get instant help on the identifier under the caret.

Nonethless it would be nice to integrate help from other sources
*easily*, of course.

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys
On 03/30/2011 10:39 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>
> I've been saying this for years, but the Lazarus developers can't seem
> to make a decision on a offline help format...
If DocView really is good, stable and open source, I don't see why its
not integrated

> so we are all stuck (by default) with the crap online only wiki help.
>
The online help _can_ be downloaded and accessed in a file (there are
instructions and I once managed to get it running).

The online help of course always is up to date.

I do vote for DocView being able to work on files provided online by the
distribution server :)

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 30/03/2011 12:13, Michael Schnell wrote:
> If DocView really is good, stable and open source, I don't see why its
> not integrated

Because DocView is a part of the fpGUI Toolkit project, and probably
because MacOSX is not officially supported by fpGUI yet. And yes,
docview is open-source, its included with fpGUI.


> The online help _can_ be downloaded and accessed in a file (there are
> instructions and I once managed to get it running).

Yes I know about the class API help (using fpdoc), but what about the
wiki (IDE + general Lazarus) help?



Regards,
   - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Graeme Geldenhuys
In reply to this post by Hans-Peter Diettrich
On 30/03/2011 13:02, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> FPDoc Editor is fine, and it allows to update the help immediately. Even
> no need to press F1, to get instant help on the identifier under the caret.

You cannot compare, because FPDoc Editor is only good for editing API
help (in fpdoc format). It is not meant has a help viewer. It has no
support for FPC's Object Pascal language syntax help. No search
function. No index function. No bookmarks function. No help annotation
function. No user customization like fonts, colors etc...  incidentally,
all features supported by DocView.


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   - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Marco van de Voort
In reply to this post by Michael Schnell
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 09:01:34AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 09:16 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> > The reference guide is also available online, so that is no reason.
> Sorry for erroneous language. Here with "online" I meant pressing F1
> when a language error occurs or a language keyword is under the cursor.

Same bit. You will have to craft that either way, using FPC html or Delphi
html.

But for FPC, at least a mapping from keyword to url is available as
byproduct of the document generation (see
http://www.stack.nl/~marcov/ref.kwd). The only thing to be done is better
configurationability of the helpsystem. (so that it e.g. also works with
offline help), and versioning of the online docs, so that old lazarus'
versions still can find their help.

Again: there is no benefit in using the Delphi stuff in FPC. That it works
in Delphi does not mean that we can actually recycle it (both licensewise
and technically). Except maybe from places where the LCL is blank, but
efforts can be better directed to actually fill that, rather than implement
kludges.

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Michael Schnell
On 03/30/2011 12:57 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> Again: there is no benefit in using the Delphi stuff in FPC. That it works
> in Delphi does not mean that we can actually recycle it (both licensewise
> and technically).
This of course is true, but you  often do prefer information known to be
questionable above less complete one (Wikipedia anybody ? )

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Help

Marco van de Voort
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 09:21:59AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> > Again: there is no benefit in using the Delphi stuff in FPC. That it works
> > in Delphi does not mean that we can actually recycle it (both licensewise
> > and technically).
> This of course is true, but you  often do prefer information known to be
> questionable above less complete one (Wikipedia anybody ? )

I don't see any analogy there. And there is a difference between some
programmer using it as backup info source and investing in IDE integration.

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