[Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

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[Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Reinier Olislagers
Hi list,

Noticed some people said they don't want to contribute to the Lazarus
wiki for various reasons.

If those people want to contribute their knowledge and help others with
it, there are alternatives, such as the Object Pascal/Lazarus book by
forum member motaz (Motaz Abdel Azeem):
http://code.sd/startprog/
(released under Creative Commons license)

IIRC, there was also a French book that discusses Lazarus.

Regards,
Reinier

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Hans-Peter Diettrich
Reinier Olislagers schrieb:
> Hi list,
>
> Noticed some people said they don't want to contribute to the Lazarus
> wiki for various reasons.
>
> If those people want to contribute their knowledge and help others with
> it, there are alternatives,

Essentially the same problem: where to search for existing documentation?

When I was working on docking, I created an blog for the documentation
of all problems and ideas. Who will ever find out that this blog may
contain requested information, without knowing that the blog exists?

BTW, a blog or forum may be a good place for discussing documentation
issues, provided that a systematic search for specific items is possible
there, and a link is provided in the Lazarus home page.

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Reinier Olislagers
On 1-3-2012 12:05, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

> Reinier Olislagers schrieb:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> Noticed some people said they don't want to contribute to the Lazarus
>> wiki for various reasons.
>>
>> If those people want to contribute their knowledge and help others with
>> it, there are alternatives,
>
> Essentially the same problem: where to search for existing documentation?
I don't really see your problem.

What do you mean with "existing documentation"? Link/refer from the book
to the wiki and vice versa.

Also - haven't checked - the licenses of book & wiki may very well be
compatible, so it would be possible to copy over stuff literally
(instead of rephrasing it).

Regards,
Reinier

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Hans-Peter Diettrich
Reinier Olislagers schrieb:

>> Essentially the same problem: where to search for existing documentation?
> I don't really see your problem.
>
> What do you mean with "existing documentation"? Link/refer from the book
> to the wiki and vice versa.

Okay, so far, but how many documentation sources will be linked, and how
to determine which of these links to follow? Scattering information into
many places is not a good idea, when it comes to searching for specific
topics.

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Reinier Olislagers
On 1-3-2012 16:54, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

> Reinier Olislagers schrieb:
>
>>> Essentially the same problem: where to search for existing
>>> documentation?
>> I don't really see your problem.
>>
>> What do you mean with "existing documentation"? Link/refer from the book
>> to the wiki and vice versa.
>
> Okay, so far, but how many documentation sources will be linked, and how
> to determine which of these links to follow? Scattering information into
> many places is not a good idea, when it comes to searching for specific
> topics.

Well, I don't know but saying there's more information to be found at
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal would be sufficient... but it's not up to me.

And I DON'T mean to suggest you should write part of a book with links
to the wiki all over the place. Otherwise, why write a book ;)

You complained the wiki is a poor format to store help in, so I just
wanted to show you an alternative: put your information in a book.
That's all.

Regards,
Reinier

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

leledumbo
Administrator
In reply to this post by Reinier Olislagers
The book seems to be written with OpenOffice.org / LibreOffice, that would be difficult to track changes.
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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2 March 2012 04:17, leledumbo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The book seems to be written with OpenOffice.org / LibreOffice, that would be
> difficult to track changes.


OpenOffice (like most office suites) have a "record changes" function.
It also supports multiple versions of a document inside a single ODT
file. You can also do comparisons between two ODT documents from
inside OpenOffice. So there shouldn't be any problem collaborating
with others using ODT files.

Trying to do a 'svn diff' might be an issue. Git has a filter that
converts ODT files to text before it shows such a diff, so in Git it
is not a problem either. I don't know if svn supports such a feature.


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Trying to do a 'svn diff' might be an issue. Git has a filter that
> converts ODT files to text before it shows such a diff, so in Git it
> is not a problem either. I don't know if svn supports such a feature.

If you use tortoiseSVN it does support showing the differences between
document files. I was amazed when I first saw and it clearly something
new (maybe 1 or 2 years, dont know)

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you use tortoiseSVN it does support showing the differences between
> document files. I was amazed when I first saw and it clearly something
> new (maybe 1 or 2 years, dont know)

Oh yes, and it shows them grafically, not as raw text.

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Lukasz Sokol
On 02/03/2012 09:04, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If you use tortoiseSVN it does support showing the differences between
>> document files. I was amazed when I first saw and it clearly something
>> new (maybe 1 or 2 years, dont know)
>
> Oh yes, and it shows them grafically, not as raw text.
>

AFAIMR, ODF files are essentially compacted XML;

Lukasz


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2 March 2012 11:13, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
>
> AFAIMR, ODF files are essentially compacted XML;


Yes, it is actually a zip file. Just rename any odt file to .zip and
you can unpack it. It doesn't just contain XML though. If you document
has images embedded, then the zip archive contains PNG files too.
Embedded sound is probably handled in a similar fashion.


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

leledumbo
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In reply to this post by Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
> Oh yes, and it shows them grafically, not as raw text.

Now that's something I don't know :)
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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Alexsander Rosa
I suggest convert it to LyX format.

2012/3/2 leledumbo <[hidden email]>
> Oh yes, and it shows them grafically, not as raw text.

Now that's something I don't know :)

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Graeme Geldenhuys
2012/3/2 Alexsander Rosa :
> I suggest convert it to LyX format.

No need really. The newer OpenOffice and LibreOffice also supports the
Flattened ODT format (older versions of OOo can install the plugin for
this too). That is basically just an XML file (no zip archive like
ODT). This makes it much better for version control systems to manage
document revisions and patches. I'm not sure how Flattened ODT handles
images though, but then again, for any large documents (like a book)
it is anyway recommended (think of it as best practice) to link to
images, and not embed images.


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Alexsander Rosa
The problem with "secretary's editors" like MS Word or Open/LibreOffice is that they waste user's time with formatting and other non-content related activities. With LaTeX and derivatives such as LyX, the user is free to be productive. When I was working on my MSc paper, ages ago, I wrote some 40 pages in two months on Word, then converted it to LyX and created 40 more pages in just one week.

2012/3/2 Graeme Geldenhuys <[hidden email]>
2012/3/2 Alexsander Rosa :
> I suggest convert it to LyX format.

No need really. The newer OpenOffice and LibreOffice also supports the
Flattened ODT format (older versions of OOo can install the plugin for
this too). That is basically just an XML file (no zip archive like
ODT). This makes it much better for version control systems to manage
document revisions and patches. I'm not sure how Flattened ODT handles
images though, but then again, for any large documents (like a book)
it is anyway recommended (think of it as best practice) to link to
images, and not embed images.


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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Marc Santhoff
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Am Freitag, den 02.03.2012, 23:49 +0200 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
> 2012/3/2 Alexsander Rosa :
> > I suggest convert it to LyX format.
>
> No need really. The newer OpenOffice and LibreOffice also supports the
> Flattened ODT format (older versions of OOo can install the plugin for
> this too). That is basically just an XML file (no zip archive like
> ODT).

I just aksed for this feature elsewhere, it has been in and out an seems
to be in again. Do you now which version is necessary? (My last test was
done on 3.0 or 3.2 or so)

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Graeme Geldenhuys
I've have to check the version for you when I am back at work on
Monday, but I think I have LibreOffice 3.5.0 (not 100% sure though).

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Graeme Geldenhuys
In reply to this post by Alexsander Rosa
On 03/03/2012, Alexsander Rosa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The problem with "secretary's editors" like MS Word or Open/LibreOffice is
> that they waste user's time with formatting and other non-content related
> activities. With LaTeX and derivatives such as LyX, the user is free to be
> productive. When I was working on my MSc paper, ages ago, I wrote some 40
> pages in two months on Word, then converted it to LyX and created 40 more
> pages in just one week.
>

I have used LaTeX and OpenOffice many many
published articles and technical papers, project
specifications etc.

I can honestly say, in my experience LaTeX just
made me slower. I had to fight to figure out how
to get certain text to display correctly, because
it was constantly some or other reserved LaTeX
tag some something.

As for OpenOffice. I have created years ago
various templates for all the different type of
documents I need. They are all designed with Styles.
So no, I don't have to think about formatting
either, just what is the structure I am currenty
typing, and apply the correct (already available
style to it). My documents are well layed out and
formatted, with very little effort from my end.
I tend to write articles in 2 days (evenings really) and
they normally consist of so 11-18 pages.
Writting speed (meaning getting content from your
head to the computer / paper) is not affected by
the editor you use. Well, not in my case. I write
paragraphs as I think of ideas. Then once done,
I go back and rearrange chapters, paragraphs etc
and double click on the relevent Style to apply them.

I guess each writter works differently.

Regards,
  Graeme.













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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?u

Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said:
> I can honestly say, in my experience LaTeX just
> made me slower. I had to fight to figure out how
> to get certain text to display correctly, because
> it was constantly some or other reserved LaTeX
> tag some something.

For me it is the other way around. The main reason being if that if I have
something in a way that I like, copying it is really
easy (even if 1 year later).

With OO I'm always thinking about how I got the effect
in that way. In Latex if I have something the way it
should look, I at the same time have the way to duplicate it.
 

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Re: [Lazarus] Contribute to a book instead of wiki?

Michael Van Canneyt
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys


On Sat, 3 Mar 2012, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

> On 03/03/2012, Alexsander Rosa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The problem with "secretary's editors" like MS Word or Open/LibreOffice is
>> that they waste user's time with formatting and other non-content related
>> activities. With LaTeX and derivatives such as LyX, the user is free to be
>> productive. When I was working on my MSc paper, ages ago, I wrote some 40
>> pages in two months on Word, then converted it to LyX and created 40 more
>> pages in just one week.
>>
>
> I have used LaTeX and OpenOffice many many
> published articles and technical papers, project
> specifications etc.
>
> I can honestly say, in my experience LaTeX just
> made me slower. I had to fight to figure out how
> to get certain text to display correctly, because
> it was constantly some or other reserved LaTeX
> tag some something.

I believe that.

You should let latex worry about displaying the text correctly.

If you want everything placed just there with just that width
and whatnot, then LaTeX is indeed not your tool, you need a desktop
publishing tool.

I type text, and latex makes a layout that is 99% perfect;
I really don't care about the last 1%.
I've never been able to achieve the same speed with any wordprocessor.

Michael.

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