[Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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[Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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I had tried in remote times to activate the "use external gdb debug
symbols file" option, and it didn't work properly, so I forgot about it.
But some time ago I tried again, and now it turns out to work perfectly,
at least under Linux.

Wouldn't it be nice to set it active by default?

This could make unnecessary in many cases a different build mode for
testing and for deploying, and would stop the complaints about "long
executable".

Giuliano


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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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External debug symbols file?

+1 for ON default


On 20.05.2017 13:24, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote:
> Wouldn't it be nice to set it active by default?

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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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On 5/20/17, Alexey via Lazarus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> External debug symbols file?

No, please.

Bart
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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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Il 20/05/2017 13:20, Bart via Lazarus ha scritto:

External debug symbols file?
No, please.

Why?

Giuliano


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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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In reply to this post by Free Pascal - Lazarus mailing list
On 20/05/2017 11:24, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote:

> I had tried in remote times to activate the "use external gdb debug
> symbols file" option, and it didn't work properly, so I forgot about
> it. But some time ago I tried again, and now it turns out to work
> perfectly, at least under Linux.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to set it active by default?
>
> This could make unnecessary in many cases a different build mode for
> testing and for deploying, and would stop the complaints about "long
> executable".

1) It would need a lot of testing.
- On ALL platforms.
- With lots of different versions of gdb
- and with fpdebug
- and with -gl (dump line numbers in traces)
- and with the IDE tool "Leaks and traces", the button "resolve"

2) The statement "make unnecessary in many cases a different build
mode..." is wrong.
If you are serious about developing or teaching to do so, then I see no
case where this applies.
Debug mode still needs -Criot -gt -gh  and assertions, and maybe others.

---------------------
Also people complain about the size of a debug free exe too. So the
problem persists, yet with less people complaining.

Anyway the issue is not to change the size of the debug exe, the issue
is to make sure people realize that there is debug and release (so the
benefit from -Criot... in debug too).

If you have ideas how to highlight them better...
Maybe the debug mode can be set to create it's output in a folder named
debug? Then people who look at the exe will be forced to notice (well,
some may notice the obvious, others may not)

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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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In reply to this post by Free Pascal - Lazarus mailing list
On 5/20/17, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>> External debug symbols file?
>> No, please.
>
> Why?

1. I regularly deploy applications with debug info.
2. There are reports (or at least I remeber seeing them) that
antivirus programs tend to barf on external debug files.
3. Any serious developer should have a debug and release mode for
anything he releases, which would make the "why are my executales so
big" discussion a bit obsolete.
4. The "why are my executales so big" is in the FAQ, just refer people
to the FAQ, don't discuss with them.
5. I don't like it when you alter default settings for compilation/linking.
6. I don't like changes (unless introduced by me) in general.
7. I'm out of arguments right now.

Bart
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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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Il 20/05/2017 14:04, Bart via Lazarus ha scritto:

> On 5/20/17, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>> External debug symbols file?
>>> No, please.
>> Why?
> 1. I regularly deploy applications with debug info.
> 2. There are reports (or at least I remeber seeing them) that
> antivirus programs tend to barf on external debug files.
> 3. Any serious developer should have a debug and release mode for
> anything he releases, which would make the "why are my executales so
> big" discussion a bit obsolete.
> 4. The "why are my executales so big" is in the FAQ, just refer people
> to the FAQ, don't discuss with them.
> 5. I don't like it when you alter default settings for compilation/linking.
> 6. I don't like changes (unless introduced by me) in general.
> 7. I'm out of arguments right now.
>
> Bart

I'm afraid that there's a big misunderstanding (which also explains
Martin's answer).

I wasn't suggesting to make the external debug symbol file the default
Lazarus behaviour, removing the flexibility which is currently provided.

I was just suggesting to change the default of the "external debug
symbol file" checkbox from *unchecked* to *checked*, when you start a
new project. This would provide a new user a better experience, before
he learns how to take advantage of different build modes, and gets
acquainted wit all the extra options available to generate debug and
production compiler switches.

The default checkbox settings are intended to provide users with a
minimum starting point, and to suggest some reasonable options. External
debug symbol file is one of them, IMHO.

Giuliano




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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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In reply to this post by Free Pascal - Lazarus mailing list
I also agree with "Use external gdb debug symbols file" being ON by
default for a new Lazarus project.

Unless of course some debug info formats didn't support it, which would
raise other questions.

This is only a default option for new projects, which would affect
mostly new users or quick test projects, where it should always be
beneficial to keep executable file small.

Denis


On 20/05/2017 11:24, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote:

> I had tried in remote times to activate the "use external gdb debug
> symbols file" option, and it didn't work properly, so I forgot about
> it. But some time ago I tried again, and now it turns out to work
> perfectly, at least under Linux.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to set it active by default?
>
> This could make unnecessary in many cases a different build mode for
> testing and for deploying, and would stop the complaints about "long
> executable".
>
> Giuliano
>
>

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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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In reply to this post by Free Pascal - Lazarus mailing list
On Sat, 20 May 2017 12:24:01 +0200, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>...would stop the complaints about "long executable".

How about strip -s <filename> as a post-compile step before shipping?


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Re: [Lazarus] A simple way to stop the never ending story of long executable?

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Il 26/05/2017 23:14, Bo Berglund via Lazarus ha scritto:
> On Sat, 20 May 2017 12:24:01 +0200, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...would stop the complaints about "long executable".
> How about strip -s <filename> as a post-compile step before shipping?
>
>
That way you erase the debug symbols. If later a user complains about a
bug, or about a supposed bug, you're forced to recompile everything, and
if something has changed in between, you can't tell what's the cause of
the trouble.

If you keep the debug symbols in a separate file, you have the best of
both worlds. You may choose whether to ship debug symbols or not, you
may debug again exactly the same binary you shipped, you may ship later
the debug symbols if you need to have someone debug on the field, etc.
etc. It's just a compiler flag you never need to change. Then it's up to
you to decide what to ship and what to keep.

Giuliano

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